Dell complaints

[HellResident]

Saw this today after a google search for Dell Apprenticeship program . It's alot kinder than I would have given them.

http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=fd0fe8ec-7997-4e9f-bdd5-b8dab2b75b10&sponsor=


Call centre controversy dogs McGuinty Liberals
Deeming Dell workers apprentices 'waters down' skilled trades, critics say

Vito Pilieci
The Ottawa Citizen

Tuesday, June 03, 2008

As a shortage of skilled labour threatens to engulf Ontario's economy, the McGuinty government is facing pointed questions about why it has given call centre workers apprenticeship status along with millions of dollars in training support.

Controversy is growing now because of Dell Computer Corp.'s decision to close its Ottawa call centre. Dell collected tax incentives of up to 25 per cent of the salaries it was paying to its 1,700 Ottawa workers -- worth more than $11 million.

The provincial NDP, the Ontario Federation of Labour and former Dell employees want the province to explain how a call centre operator can be deemed an apprentice.

"It doesn't sound like an apprenticeship program, it sounds like an incentive program," said MPP Rosario Marchese, the NDP critic for Training, Colleges and Universities.

Federation secretary treasurer Irene Harris says that by making new professions eligible for apprenticeships, the province may have inflated the number of "skilled" workers being trained.

"This does a huge disservice to recognizing the skills shortage in these trades," said Ms. Harris. "What it does is, it waters down the trades."

Traditionally, apprenticeships were offered in trades requiring years of training under the guidance of a seasoned professional plumber or electrician.

"Technical Support Agent Information Technology Call Centre" was added to the list of careers that are eligible for the Apprenticeship Training and Tax Credit as part of the 2006 budget. Ontario is the only province that recognizes technical support agents as apprentices. The province has also added special event planners and early childhood educators to its list of trades that qualify for apprenticeships.

In Dell's case, the premier himself committed the province to the tax incentives in a June 22, 2005 phone conversation with the Texas-based company.

A spokeswoman for Dalton McGuinty would not comment on the conversation with Dell, but said the premier regularly takes calls from businesses that are considering setting up operations in Ontario.

Ms. Harris of the Ontario Federation of Labour, said the apprenticeship incentives were created to help small and medium businesses hire new employees and provide future generations of skilled labour in Ontario.

The province began the process of loosening restrictions on apprenticeships in 2004. Previously, it had recognized apprenticeships for trades such as plumbers, electricians and tool and die makers.

Today, the province recognizes 140 apprenticeships. Within its first year of being added to the list, 2,750 technical support agents were being funded -- making it one of the Top 10 most popular apprenticeships.

Under provincial law, a provincially accredited apprenticeship allows an employer to obtain a substantial tax credit on eligible salaries. The employer can also collect $54 for every six hours of in-class training provided for each technical support agent who completes the 600 hours necessary to obtain their apprenticeship -- an additional $5,400 from the province.

Agents must also have 3,400 hours of on-the-job training. A technical support agent can complete an apprenticeship in two and a half years.

According to the Ontario Federation of Labour, most skilled trade apprenticeships take between five and seven years.

At its peak, Dell employed more than 1,800 workers in Ottawa, and most of its call centre employees were making around $18.75 per hour. All of the people hired to work in the call centre were enrolled in the apprenticeship program.

The Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities said Dell enrolled 1,700 employees as apprentices over the close to three years it was in Ottawa. The company collected about $11 million in incentives from the province.

Greg Flood, a spokesman for the ministry, said adding new apprenticeships helps Ontario bolster its knowledge economy for the future. The ministry believes not all skilled trades are labour-intensive positions, and that some, such as support agents, require different skill sets.

Still, some former Dell employees question the validity of the training they received. Several said they entered Dell with significant experience in a call centre environment and as a result, they believe they should not have been classified as "apprentices."

Dell has made all of its former employees sign release forms that forbid them from speaking out against the company.

One former employee said he had worked in call centres for more than seven years before getting the job at Dell and being enrolled in the apprenticeship program. He questioned whether he should even have been eligible for an apprenticeship.

Another said a vast majority of the training he received was on the job, and any "in-class" training that Dell performed was held in a company boardroom at the Kanata office complex. The training was conducted by a Dell manager or supervisor and usually comprised troubleshooting new Dell products.

Blair Patacairk, a Dell spokesman, said the company provided its employees with numerous training sessions, training that has made former Dell employees some of the most sought-after in Ottawa.

"Before interacting with any customers, our professionals have to go through training. Otherwise, we wouldn't put them on the phone," he said.

"The training is designed for employees to get practical experience. Part of it is on the job and part is in class. Those employees have now come out of this with great skills that they can now go and use somewhere else."

Mr. Patacairk said Dell performed thousands of hours of training for its workers to obtain their apprenticeship. He also said the skills Dell employees learned about computer troubleshooting, virus removal, call logging and conflict resolution can only help bolster their résumés.

He said some employees may not have been with Dell long enough to fulfil the education and on-the-job requirements to complete their apprenticeship.

However, Mr. Patacairk said those people can still work toward completing their apprenticeship through another employer.

Dell was also subjected to annual audits by ministry officials who combed through the company's paperwork to make sure the apprenticeship requirements were being met, according to Mr. Patacairk.

Mr. Marchese said he can't blame Dell for taking advantage of the province's apprenticeship program. However, he questioned why the ministry would offer an apprenticeship for call centre workers. He also wants to know who is ensuring that the apprentices involved are receiving adequate training that they can use to get a job anywhere in their field.

"It's supposed to provide long-term jobs and give them skills to be able to move from one position to another. It's not doing that. If it's to be an apprenticeship, there is a certain amount of rigour and hours involved. We need to be confident that the money going to these programs is serving the purpose to what it was intended."

Ms. Harris said she believes the new apprenticeships should be removed because they cannot be considered skilled trades. She said she is worried that these new offerings may lessen the value of more traditional apprentice positions.

"These kinds of things are not trades. What they have done is confused whole trades with certificate-type programs," she said.

"It's fair game to say call centre positions require some training and they need a certificate. Fine, make it a certificate program, don't call it a trade."
© The Ottawa Citizen 2008

[FallenAngel]

[AngelusDaemonicus]

DELL has fed yet another pile of horse-shit to it's employees.
I think I would have respected them more if they'd just asked me to sign a pile of papers so they could get tax credits from Dumb-Ass McGuintey.
Apprenticeship... yeah... right.
_________________
"One man's garbage is another man's DELL."

[CLCP4ME]

It's the stupidest thing ever and it's also not quite true that most employees were making $18.75 an hour either. Just think of all the techs from ACS that got screwed out of B1 pay grades when they got moved to XPS. A5 pay grade is more like $13 to $16 an hour if you're lucky.

Secondly anyone who worked for Dell in Ottawa was enrolled in the apprenticeship program. That includes people managers who knew absolutely nothing about computers or technology or taking calls etc. Even people working in scheduling and CCO which is a glorified scheduling/admin position was enrolled in the program. Dell basically made off with lot's of Ontario's money is what happened.

[FallenAngel]

[HellResident]

[AngelusDaemonicus]

I'm planning on letting the ministry know about the horse-shit at DELL. I doubt they'll care, though. Just like the government. If DELL turned around tomorrow and said that they were going to open another call center in Ottawa and hire more people, the government would hand out more cash. Nothing will change. Governments are all the same. Look at what's happening with the GM plant in Oshawa. Same BS there. Take the money and run.
_________________
"One man's garbage is another man's DELL."

[FallenAngel]

Well Angelus, you never know til you try, right? Anything worth doing is worth doing well. If you don't ever try, then you're guaranteed no results.

I could go on for days with cliches like these. You get the point though.

[DSM]

CLCP4ME, remember when they made ACS XPS. I recall most of the ACS agent appling for XPS positions only a few weeks before the merge, and most of you were turned down. The reason you made A5 and not B1 was you weren't worth it. You were dispatchers not technician and when the merger happen you weren't good enough.

And some post to CST.

[AngelusDaemonicus]

Most "techs" at DELL are dispatchers.
In the automotive industry, we call them "part-swappers."
Real techs take time to diagnose the problem and repair it. Part-swappers have shorter talk-times and upgrade parts... therefore making more money and costing less. Who do you think that DELL likes more?

This is why XPS Ottawa kept getting "trimmed." Techs that cost more than they made, in DELL's eyes. Who cares if they made the customers happy, right?
_________________
"One man's garbage is another man's DELL."

[FallenAngel]

[biff's buddy]

I'm sure Rosario Marchese would love to walk into the Ontario Legislature with several hundred emails from former Dell employees crying foul. This kind of grass roots could indeed lead to much more than an embarrassment for the Mc Guinty government.

rmarchese-qp@ndp.on.ca

[FallenAngel]

[biff's buddy]

I'm sure Dell would be happy to share their Avaya phone records to backup all of this training that went on.

[HellResident]