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problem at boot-up time
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Rocke_T_Sinetist
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
after disabling everything except the PNY USB drive, AVG Antivirus and Zone Alarm firewall in the Startup configuration
So that's audio, video, modem drivers disabled, and it still happens WHILE those are disabled? Just trying to eliminate drivers and their respective devices.

Also, not quite following the symptom. It puts up the wallpaper and icons and then POOF, that disappears and is replaced with a black screen with blinking cursor? When this happens, does CTL-ALT-DEL respond?

Wallpaper & icons, the next step is load Zone Alarm and AV. Tell those not to start and see what happens.

Do you have a known-good image on another PATA drive you could substitute? Khan doesn't require Intel drivers for the ICH, like recent platforms do.
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FallenAngel
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hotrodlincoln wrote:
where I can see my background .JPG and icons


This is where it caught my attention. Standard issue backgrounds on all platforms is .BMP. Using another format like in this case a .JPG/.JPEG indicates to me that Active Desktop is now being used.

Active Desktop was a killer back on the old ME platform, and I can't remember how many times I saw errors, "Active Desktop Recovery..." displayed.

To me, I'd be more inclined to point a finger at a bunk desktop before I'd blame an antivirus or firewall app. I suspect the AD is more to blame than anything.
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hotrodlincoln
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FallenAngel wrote:
hotrodlincoln wrote:
where I can see my background .JPG and icons


This is where it caught my attention. Standard issue backgrounds on all platforms is .BMP. Using another format like in this case a .JPG/.JPEG indicates to me that Active Desktop is now being used.


I stand corrected - my background wallpaper is a .BMP Bitmap file, not a .JPG file.
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hotrodlincoln
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rocke_T_Sinetist wrote:
Quote:
after disabling everything except the PNY USB drive, AVG Antivirus and Zone Alarm firewall in the Startup configuration
So that's audio, video, modem drivers disabled, and it still happens WHILE those are disabled? Just trying to eliminate drivers and their respective devices.


I didn't disable the video driver because, after all, I want to SEE what's happening on the monitor as it occurs.

Rocke_T_Sinetist wrote:

Also, not quite following the symptom. It puts up the wallpaper and icons and then POOF, that disappears and is replaced with a black screen with blinking cursor? When this happens, does CTL-ALT-DEL respond?


No - RIGHT BEFORE it gets to the point of putting up the wallpaper and the icons, there's a brief pause where the screen goes dark after closing the Windows display screen, and it just stays there; black screen with nothing on it except the white underscore cursor blinking in the upper lefthand corner. CTL-ALT-DEL is ignored.

Rocke_T_Sinetist wrote:

Do you have a known-good image on another PATA drive you could substitute? Khan doesn't require Intel drivers for the ICH, like recent platforms do.


No I don't.
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Rocke_T_Sinetist
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disabling the video driver doesn't disable video, just display modes above 640x480. Safe mode doesn't load the video driver.

OK, at the time when wallpaper and icons should appear... really sounds like an unhappy driver, Linc. Specially since safe mode always works. Know what I'd bet? If you enable every driver and startup EXCEPT video, you won't see the problem.

Reseat the video card. Clean the contact fingers with alcohol, but only if you have a LINT-FREE wiper to do it with (they sell those at Fry's, maybe even Radio Shack). If the wiper is pre-moistened, no need to add anything to it. See if that fixes it. If not--

Dig out that video driver disk, uninstall the existing one and reinstall it. You have to do that from safe mode, since once the driver is operating it won't uninstall.

CTL-ALT-DEL is a BIOS function, so if it is not responding, BIOS is hung up. That further suggests there's a chunk of hardware (video card) that is half-operating and half-not, and BIOS doesn't have an error handler for that condition so it just sits there.
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FallenAngel
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or, if you know someone that would be able to borrow you as "known good" video card, that'd resolve the problem right quick. You'd know, instantly, if the card is at fault or not.

If a "known good" card fails, the port itself may be what's causing the issue. If PCI, then simply swap to an unused port (if applicable). If AGP...well, time for a new motherboard OR get your hands on a PCI vid card.
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KE7EHA
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THe problem could be in the software itself. Some of these huge, bloated microsoft OS's generate a lot of garbage, and can sometimes crash because of this. If you have not reinstalled in years, this could be the problem. Also, it could be other software issues, inclucing viruses, spyware, etc.

Anyway, I would try some of these simple software checks first, then reseat the video card, etc.
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Rocke_T_Sinetist
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, Linc--You say it sometimes works right? Driver corruption tends NOT to be intermittent. Hardware DOES. Sockets, more so than anything.
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FallenAngel
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I leaned towards the socket a few days ago myself...it'd be a shame if that's the case. Luckilly, older boards are cheap these days.
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KE7EHA
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intermittent faults are a real cast-iron b**** to diagnose, and can either be software or hardware resulting. One example of a software intermittent fault come up with dynamically allocated arrays, where the array runs into memory used for something else and overwrites it. This could happen, or the array could be placed somewhere else. A loose connection could also be to blame, as well as a faulty controller chip. In all, the easiest to try and fix is that with software, especially if it results from a virus/s[yware. That's why I would do everything with the [relatively] easy to diagnose software side of things before cracking the case on the computer. Then check the PSU/Vid card, mobo, etc.
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hotrodlincoln
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:59 pm    Post subject: Correct - that's what I said Reply with quote

Rocke_T_Sinetist wrote:
Oh, Linc--You say it sometimes works right? Driver corruption tends NOT to be intermittent. Hardware DOES. Sockets, more so than anything.


This morning for example. Turned it on, and in about a minute everything came up just fine. Of course, Wednesday night I pulled, cleaned and reseated the video card.

Speaking of which...

I was going to follow your suggestion of removing and reinstalling the video card drivers, so I dug it out of my CD cabinet, looked at it, and then I had this weird "deja vu" feeling. The CD is for a "Fire GL 1000" video card, and it didn't "feel right". So I went to the Control Panel, checked the Device Manager, and sure enough:

My video card is a Permedia 2 3D Accelerator by 3D Labs. That is what was in there when I bought this at DFO, and I remember facing this nifty little problem at least once or twice before. Fortunately, I have downloaded the latest version of the CORRECT DRIVERS from the support website and installed them.

I still believe that it's a hardware problem, so I'm looking into a bare-bones purchase, and moving my HDs and other peripherals over to it. On the plus side, I'd be buying a new CPU and more memory than this box can handle. I still have a hard time getting my head wrapped around the idea of a card somehow working itself loose in a box that hasn't been moved in a few years...

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Rocke_T_Sinetist
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, present status is 'working last time I tried it'. Excellent. Cross your fingers.

Socketed peripherals are subject to constant mechanical disturbance as they heat and cool. They CAN 'work themselves loose'.

A bigger issue is component aging. Some drivers poll the peripheral for things like 'is the clock within specs?' and balk if the answer is no. That was the issue with WME and portables audio chips, and caused the exact same symptom. Reseating is just a step, to see if that solves it without the expense of replacing it.

Never heard of EITHER of those brands. Got it at DFO eh? Me too! Mine's Nvidia ZXV, whatever THAT means. It's 8MB, pretty retarded, equivalent to the lowest D-2400 now. I won't be playing 'Global Thermonuclear War' any time soon. Twisted Evil
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